Advice

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Unsolicited advice for people who want to get into project cars...

From u/Syscrush on reddit/r/projectCar

Hey all. It seems like almost every week we see people posting near basket case cars and saying something along the lines of “Is this a good first project car?” As someone who's had a mix of success and failures with many different kinds of projects (cars and otherwise), I am here to offer some advice. Others can criticize or chip in with their own experiences and lessons learned.

First, and most importantly: You need a place to work on the car that is easily accessible. If you are married, and especially if you have kids - it should probably be a garage at your home. Getting projects done is hard, and every bit of friction between your day-to-day life and being out there working on your car is going to make it harder and less likely to make progress.

Second: don't assume that you can or should try to do everything yourself. We all see features in magazines and online where everything was done by the owner. Rebuilt the engine, port matched the heads and intake, designed and welded equal length tri-Y headers, all plumbing, all wiring, fabrication, bodywork, upholstery, etc. etc. NO NORMAL HUMAN STARTS THIS WAY. There are some first-time builders who do that stuff right off the bat, but it's as rare as running a 4 minute mile or hitting a hole in one. Very few of us have that mix of talent and skill. Don't take on a project that requires you to be Riley Stair.

Third: don't try to put all of your ideas/dreams into one project. Decide what the car is going to be, have a coherent vision, and do your best to execute it. If it's going to be a daily driver, don't put a cage in it. If you want to do AutoX or Time Attack, don't stance it out. If you're doing a fancy audio installation, don't run straight pipes. Race cars shouldn't have interiors, street driven cars shouldn't be without them. The world doesn't need the first mid-engine straight-8 diesel hybrid AWD carbon-bodied Beetle Wagon running on propane.

Fourth: don't make assumptions about what you will or won't enjoy doing. Everybody bitches about sanding bodywork, but maybe you'll like it. Everybody gets excited about throwing on power adders, but maybe you'll hate it. Get in there, start doing some work, and see what you find rewarding.

Fifth: if you're not building a race car, performance generally and horsepower specifically are just really not all that important. There are so many ways to make a car really yours, and to maximize your driving enjoyment other than adding power. Suspension, brakes, steering, wheels/tires, paint/wrap, body accents, AV, interior, etc. all offer limitless possibilities to tweak and tune your car to make it more personal and more fun.

Sixth: engine swaps are difficult, expensive, and in many cases unreliable. Yes, an LS motor in an OEM application like a cop car or taxi will go 300,000 miles. That same engine in a Z car or Miata or 911 can die a short and painful death when it's in an application that wasn't holistically designed in terms of the cooling and oiling systems, with the knowledge of a team of engineers who understand the details of the car's aerodynamics and the ways the engine will behave when subjected to different g-loads under different conditions.

Look at Hoovie's LS swapped 911 or Donut's LS swapped Z car as examples. The 911 died the first day on track because it starved for oil due to the cornering and braking forces not working right with the stock oiling system in an application where it was mounted backwards. With Donut, the junkyard LS with cheap swap kit has been working fine, but the $100k car with a built crate motor keeps overheating. They reached a point where they had to change to a standalone ECU to try to sort it out and even that didn't work.

Seventh: if you are going to drive your car on the street, know and respect the regulations on modded cars where you live. Yes, it's kind of fun having your criminal-adjacent buddy get you an emissions check sticker for your de-catted RX-7 but it's just additional stress in the long run. You want a car you can enjoy driving, not one that invites constant attention from and arguments with the police.

Eighth: project cars are more expensive than nice OEM cars. So many people think “I can buy this diamond in the rough and fix it up for less than the cost of a nice one”. No, you can not. Or they think “I can make this Miata faster than a Cayman GTS for less money”. Again, no. “I can buy this base-model FC and build it up nicer than a Turbo II with bolt-on OEM parts” - yes, you can, but it will cost you more and have less market value than a real TII. A project car is always a cost proposition, never a savings proposition. The reason to do it is because it makes you happy, not because it saves you any money. You sometimes hear expressions like There's nothing more expensive than a cheap Porsche or If you can't afford a nice one, a rough one will bankrupt you. These are hard-won truths. Abide by them.

BONUS ADVICE SINCE THIS IS GETTING SOME TRACTION

Ninth (should probably have been second): don't try to make your daily a project. Never put yourself in a position where you're doing a project on a car that you need for transportation.

Tenth: manual transmissions aren't the only choice. There's so much hype, gatekeeping, and snobbery and manuals, but a lot of that is coming from people who can't tell you the difference between a crashbox and a transfer case, or what a synchro does. They are very fun for certain applications, but not the only valid choice. A good old slushbox auto is almost perfect for cars that will be driven in stop & go city traffic. It took me literally decades to make some peace with this.

So, where does this leave us? How should I get started?

What I strongly suggest is that you start out as easy as possible and gradually and carefully work your way up. Buy a clean, straight, rust-free, running, driving, reliable car. If you can't afford this, then you are not ready to get into project cars.

Start with easy modifications. If that goes OK, try something intermediate. If that goes OK, then go ahead and get more serious.

Suggested easy mods:

  • Swap wheels.
  • Big brakes.
  • New stereo & backup camera.
  • Exhaust.

Suggested intermediate mods:

  • Coilovers.
  • Flares or widebody and wide wheels.
  • Bolt-in roll cage.
  • Racing seats.
  • ITBs.

Advanced, don't start with this:

  • Standalone ECU.
  • ITBs ←- moved because this requires a standalone.
  • Engine swap.
  • Custom suspension.
  • Significantly altered bodywork.
  • Custom welded roll cage.

I hope that this is helpful to someone and sparks some worthwhile discussion. I wish that I had taken the above approach early on instead of repeatedly getting in over my head and having to give up - because a successful project is so incredibly satisfying.

Have fun out there!

random/advice.txt · Last modified: by jin
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